Cal - What's feminism done for me?

|82.44.14.xxx |2009-11-17 13:27:52

Well I think when I was younger, feminism was much cooler than it is for my friends and I. The right for women to do whatever men do was a great ideal.

However these days it means that when we do finally have a kid, my wife and I won't be able to see as much of it as my parents did. I think it also means that my wife and I don't spend so much time together as her job is quite demanding.

I think the problem is that the initial waves of feminism were aimed at women who didn't want to marry and have kids. Sadly now though we all have to work to get a mortgage and as a result my wife and I won't have the kind of relationships our parents did.

Some might say that's good, but I'm not so sure.

Russ	\|Registered \|2009-10-31 04:34:06

First, just so you understand where I'm coming from, I was directed to your article from a blog, Heretical Sex, whose mailing list I am on. I appreciate your ethos of "supporting reflection about masculinity without putting anyone else down in the process" (though I doubt it's possible in the way I understand you) and I still agree with the comments of karl123. And I might be glad to tell you why I think those those things, but being on your site pains me, so I don't know if I'll return.

But while I'm here, I have to ask how you'd know it was particularly Feminism (however it's defined) that was the source of these so-called good things? There are a small constellation of ideas that I'm seeing conflated here- feminism, anti-racism, equality, worker's rights, and humanism. Ideas and movements borrow from one another to be sure. And any given person may have only learned about anti-racism through feminism. But saying things of that sort seems like uncritical jingoism to me.

We sit on top of an immense and varied intellectual history. Feminism did not invent or propagate every good thing (contrary to what the professors at my MSW program would have had me believe).

karl123 - What has feminism done for me - or any man?

|86.138.178.xxx |2009-10-23 08:03:23

It has ensured men are portrayed/perceived as the only wrong-doers, while women are elevated far above we simple menfolk.

It has called for preferential treatment of women at men's expense. It has demanded men be treated harsher than women for the same crimes. It has portayed women as endless victims and men as endless abusers.

It has ensured men are assumed guilty until proven innocent and promoted double-standards, while making a mockery of the word 'equality'...

When feminists say they want equality, they could at least tell the truth, and acknowledge the only seek 'selective equality'.

paulbaines - men-hating-feminists

|SAdministrator |2009-10-24 06:33:53

hey karl123. your comments really stick out from the general mood of this blog -- i.e. supporting reflection about masculinity without putting anyone else down in the process.
just one request for you. can you link any of your concerns to 'feminism' either through other sources or your personal experiences? because then we can all see where your comments are coming from and what assumptions you (or your sources) are making about the feminism.
thanks.

Robert Brandstetter - educator

|76.69.12.xxx |2009-10-06 14:54:55

if you ask me who my teachers have been i often reply, "everything i needed to know in life i learned from women of colour." somehow that sounds better than saying 'non-white women,' but in a age of debating social markers, and looking for equality i still recognize the practical experiences people live through. through my partner, working with colleagues and activists and in workshops i have come to a much better understanding of my power. every man needs to sit in a circle of women and find themselves more centred. simple facts and stats motivate me a lot i.e. 2/3 women will be sexually assauated in their life and so i think mother, partner, daughter...?

being with women in situations of equality where we are working towards common goals have had huge payoffs in my life. i have learned how to be a better listener and speak less. i have learned how to be a better father. i have let myself be open to experiencing compassion as a way of life and how to diminish my own ego (despite the insistence of my training). women have taught me much more than any man ever did.

it's hard to list all the points but here are some significant ones:

b/c of feminism i have been able to recognize men better: my allies, my teachers, my brothers and who i need to forgive and who i need to spend more time helping and talking with.

b/c of feminism i was led to anti-racism.

b/c of feminism my desire to be a mentor, to work with other men, to work on developing character in young men has all the motivation it needs.

b/c of feminism the montreal massacre changed my life.

b/c of feminism i came to terms with my crimes against women - and most men who have had any relationships with women have committed crimes of power and control against women to varying degrees - and i have forgiven myself and asked for forgiveness and i was taught what grace is.

b/c of feminism i am learning how to be a better man, and am focussing on teaching young men how to be better men and i also have the privilege to work with young women at the same time to encourage them to find a voice, to let them know that they have more choices than the limited, male media empire offers them.

b/c of feminism my life is a much more happy, calm and enriching space.

and isn't that a sad fact about the pursuit of equity that as those who are pushed to margins gain more status, mine as a white, hetero, middle class male increases more so? perhaps i'm giving things up and i just don't know it, but i don't feel i'm sacrificing for feminism or equity but that i'm gaining...

kevin.audleman

|Registered |2009-10-04 05:54:30

What has feminism done for me?

I would say that it has helped me not become a dominant, patriarchal male. That is the type of environment I was raised in and was very well on my way to being aggressive, expecting my way, and using anger to control others. Only the women I was attracted to simply wouldn't put up with it. I have a friend who is very similar to me who is strongly fundamentalist and he found a wife who believes in being submissive to him. Without her providing him any checks and balances, he has no way to see what a dominating asshole he is. I feel compassion for him because I know he just doesn't know any other way. Besides, his insistence on having power is destructive of love and his relationship and him are suffering.

I would say that the feminism I have been introduced to has at its core a desire for balanced power between men and women. It's shared power instead of power over. I'm grateful for the feminist leaders who have stood behind this principle and helped me get beyond the struggle for dominance in my own head.

Lindsay Reid

|64.59.144.xxx |2009-10-01 12:36:03

Feminism has been a word I've heard since elementary school. Never really knowing what it meant, or how it worked in the real world, I sort of ignored the whole idea. Having two sisters I never juggled the role of equality in the rec-room. We always played together. Today, hearing the word feminism hurts my ears. It often seems to drag men down while attempting to uplift women. It tends to focus on the differences between us, when it should garner more attention to the similarities we have. In my house there wasn't the need to explain the difference beyond "boys have penises and girls have vaginas".. I guess feminism today has allowed me to view not what is hu-man, but what is man, and what is woman. It's when we divide ourselves we feel one should be above the other, as if women were the common denominator..why can't we quit the math and go back to gym class where we all played together?

tuval - In an ideal world

|SAdministrator |2009-10-02 14:56:12

Lindsay, I really appreciate what you're saying but I think what you're talking about is in relation to an ideal world.
Many feminists I know would like to see a world in which gender doesn't matter, just like you. But the reality is that, right now, gender does matter in some very significant ways, both personal and political. One of the sayings I really like right now is, "I'll be post-feminist in the post-patriarchy." Does that make sense?

Lindsay Reid

|64.59.144.xxx |2009-10-06 12:41:39

Ahh yes Tuval, I do see that now. That phrase does ring true, and I believe that's where my head is at. I guess I'm already past the patriarchy, leaving little time to focus on it, to allow it to become more than it already is. But yes, it does exist. Maybe my hopes extend further than my logic, my reality. Feminism is not a bad thing, for it has allowed many of the people I love become accepted and respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing. Maybe the progress of feminism lies more on the shoulders of men than women?

Theresa B - http://www.egreteffects.blogspot.com

|206.55.190.xxx |2009-09-29 15:55:29

My apologies for not following directions and commenting even though I am a woman... What a great post! Feminism is absolutely great for everyone. Yes, the term has flaws and the movement itself has flaws. But it is in a very basic sense simply about gender equality. It's about not judging a woman based on her being a woman, and that also means not judging a man based on his being a man. One goal, for example, is to lift the pressures of having to conform to arbitrary labels in order to be accepted. Emotional, sensitive, nurturing. Strong, macho, ambitious. Feminism, as caveat of humanism, just wants everyone to be able to be themselves in a more fair and kind world.

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